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-David Poole
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07/30/1993 - 01/11/2010
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Keselowski's Flying Car - At Least Four Responsible Parties | | By Carol Einarsson | 03/09/2010 | Category: Cheers and Jeers | | | CHEERS to JPM and Jamie both declining an interview. There’s no better way to put something in the past than to refuse to keep talking about it to the press.
CHEERS to the Boy Scouts and the pine wood derby cars. Some of the questions for Jeff Gordon seemed planted by PR people (What do you think about the spoiler coming back?) but others seemed planted by race-fan dads (Why are four tires better than two?). Ouch!
JEERS to the Slice of Pizzi that just keeps getting worse week after week. Are they trying to make us beg for the gopher cartoons?
CHEERS to “DW has recently found the Internet.” -- “If he’s just found it, we’re pretty much at the end of it.” As amusing as that is, CHEERS to Darrell Waltrip finally joining the world of Twitter and tweeting up a storm.
CHEERS to the interview with Carl Edwards. Show Me. To the point, yes. Not bein’ hard on the boy, just being fatherly.
CHEERS to Elliott Sadler’s way cool Autism glasses.
CHEERS to Mark Wills. So far this year he’s our winner. I think THAT’S what we should do for the ten Chase races – bring back the top ten anthem performers from the year to sing at those final races.
JEERS to David Vaughn being the name for three people. Interesting command to start. And what was that thing Jimmie did? Those were some sad boogities right there.
CHEERS to Junior on the pole. Any bets on when that car breaks?
CHEERS to Steve Byrnes calling Carl’s paint job a “tribute” rather than “retro”. That’s a lot more fitting, I think.
JEERS to Robby Gordon in the wall already, and a new car wrecked in five laps. Mike Joy says he’s had a star-crossed season, but isn’t every season the same for Robby? When will he finally give up this idea of a career in Cup racing?
CHEERS to the idea of the 48 car landing on the Kobalt tool chest. We liked the reaction of Chad and JJ, but the execution of the car falling was the weakness in the ad. They could have done that better. What was that flash of light?
JEERS to a blown right front putting David Ragan in the wall. Maybe my UPS keychain falling off this week was a bad omen for the 6 team.
JEERS to a third caution in just 40 laps, and Joey caught up in stuff that had nothing to do with him.
JEERS to the “meat in the sandwich” being Elliott Sadler. Too bad Larry Mac didn’t think to call him the bologna in the sandwich.
CHEERS to Carl, “I really thought it was his fault, but that replay doesn’t make it look as malicious as I thought.” Isn’t it funny that I saw it opposite? Initially it looked like the 99 came down on him, but the evidence on the FRONT and not the side of Keselowski’s car is proof of who’s to blame.
CHEERS to the first sign of spring… campers at Bristol!
CHEERS to sponsor involvement in the sport, but when I hear Larry Mac say, “… that I talked about during the Fed-Ex Understanding the Race…” Do you suppose he talks that way off camera? Like at home, with sponsor names peppering his conversation with his wife and kids?
CHEERS to David Ragan’s three-wheeler. Anyone else want one of those little scooters?
JEERS to debris cautions creating replays that show no debris. Looked like a couple of cars got loose, but where was the debris?
JEERS to the weirdness of Kurt Busch in boxing gloves dancing around the ring shadow boxing in his firesuit. Leftovers from last week in Vegas? Lame.
JEERS to “When Junior gets up to speed, he’ll be a lap and 2/3 behind the leaders.” What I noticed most, though, was the first part, “When Junior gets up to speed…” Given that he started on the pole and still hasn’t led a lap, I wonder how long we’re to wait for that 88 to “get up to speed.”
JEERS to Goodyear issues, and to hearing the suck-up “The left-side tires that Goodyear has developed this year are why we’re seeing these cars so fast.” You mean fast on the spin through the grass after the tire falls apart?
CHEERS to the angle of the gopher cam on the banking that made it look like the whole field, one by one, was drifting through that turn.
CHEERS to explaining yaw and pitch, and the origin in aeronautics. Pitch is up and down, yaw is left and right. Will we ever stop learning stuff from Mike Joy?
JEERS to a cut tire for Logano, and hinting towards blaming it on earlier damage. These aren’t the same tires as before, right? And when they changed the tires before, we pulled the fender out from the tire, right?
CHEERS to telestrating all over Mike Ford. His driver can’t arc in, so we’ll show him what it would look like if he could. Look up, Mike; you’ll see it!
CHEERS to Steve Byrnes picking “value guys” in his Auto Racing Challenge league.
JEERS to the wrong kind of smoke coming out of the 00 car. Where’s the love? And I wonder why we still call them “tail pipes” when they’re not at the tail of the car anymore. Maybe the same reason we still call them stock cars, I s’pose.
JEERS to being mystified in the pits. I think that kind of sums up the whole 88 team, now, doesn’t it? Whether it’s tires, or engine, or axle, or anything else. Mystified.
CHEERS to the continuing color discussion. Avocado? Pea Green? Chartreuse? I wonder if any color has ever been so scrutinized. And in case you were wondering about Mike Joy’s reference, it’s also “an aromatic liqueur made by the Carthusian monks at Grenoble, France, and, at one time, at Tarragona, Spain.” Surprised MJ knew that? No, me neither.
JEERS to the combo of 17 and Valvoline. I know it’s been years since Mark Martin drove the #6 Valvoline car, and that Kenseth no longer has his yellow car. But seeing that sponsor and that number together just looks like some kind of accident happened in the paint shop.
CHEERS to Keselowski in the top five. I wonder if the leaders are worried to know he’s about. And Sam Hornish is in the top ten, too?
CHEERS to the “beer battle” for first. We need a yellow Corona car. Maybe we can put a “diversity driver” in it, too!
CHEERS to Bob Jenkins buying race cars before he even committed to buying a family car.
CHEERS to Brian Vickers having a good run. I wonder if he’ll be happy or not to see the wings leave the back of the cars.
CHEERS to Denny getting a text from the “other” MJ, wishing him luck.
JEERS to “cuts down a tire” being the official terminology mandated by Goodyear and/or NASCAR. We watched the close-up of Denny’s car when that happened, and he ran over nothing that would have “cut” that tire. Slow-motion shows the moment of “blow out” that occurred. He had a blow out; nothing cut that tire.
JEERS to two cars in the wall on a restart, and no immediate caution? “Somebody hit Elliott Sadler…” Let’s just put the name “Somebody” on the back of Sam Hornish’s driver uniform.
CHEERS to Kevin Harvick making his move. Started near the back, but never gave up. I wish we’d have heard a little more about his progressive fixes on each pit stop. He won Saturday and knows his way around Atlanta.
CHEERS to “The Green Machine” in fifth. What is happening today? Allmendinger, Menard, Keselowski? Where is everyone else, and why aren’t they in the front of the field where they normally are?
CHEERS to JPM who might run out of laps, but surely won’t run out of motivation and desire. I’m not sure I’ve seen that intimidating of a car in many years.
JEERS to “And the 99 has turned over Keselowski…” More on this in a moment.
JEERS to wings that give flight. How often last year did we laud those wings for keeping the cars on the ground when they’d get turned around and the rear wheels lifted up? Could it be, in retrospect, that the wings weren’t responsible for keeping them down, but for getting them up in the first place? And maybe they stayed on the ground despite the wings, not because of the wings.
CHEERS to “Guys, you saw those white gloves take a sharp turn to the right.” Makes you wonder why they don’t all wear black gloves, doesn’t it? Is there a request on file from the TV guys that they wear light colored gloves so viewers can see them better? If Buddy Baker can hide a whole car by painting it grey, why can’t they at least manage to hide their hands?
CHEERS to the yellow crewman trying to put some kind of absorbing compound on the track, but the slippery got the best of him.
CHEERS to parking Carl Edwards, but… more on this, too, in a moment.
CHEERS to a restart at AMS that looks like Talladega, but….
JEERS to a big one at AMS that also looks like Talladega.
CHEERS to the radio replay from the spotter of the 55. “Get all the way to the bottom… get all the way to the bottom… all the way to the bottom… GAHHH!” In all fairness, he did eventually get all the way to the bottom.
CHEERS to Kurt Busch and to Steve Addington’s redemption! I wonder what comments will be exchanged between brothers after this win.
JEERS to a reverse victory lap… or rather, a victory lap in reverse. Then again, it’s better than snow angels (especially in the absence of snow!)
CHEERS to “We were racing that other 9 car today…” The other 9 car? We can always count on Kurt for at least one strange comment when he wins.
And finally,
JEERS to a situation created not just by Carl Edwards’ retaliatory mindset, but by NASCAR and FOX, as well. I wrote an article immediately following the wreck, but in the time that has passed since, my observations are a little more organized. This was not Carl’s doing, alone. Rather, everyone seemed to know what was going to happen, and nobody did a thing to stop it.
Carl began with a realization that maybe Keselowski hadn’t acted as maliciously as he’d first thought. But what happened after that? FOX got a clear shot on the front of the 12 car to show it was the nose that tagged the 99, not the side of the front bumper. That means the 99, while he might have come down, WAS in front of the 12. This was surely shown to Carl in the time he was waiting to get his car fixed and back on the track.
Does FOX have an obligation to show that to us? Yes, I think they do. I’m not faulting them for doing so, just pointing out that this is one ingredient.
Next we have NASCAR. They’ve mandated these cars with wings, and it doesn’t matter how opposed to them a driver or team may be, they have to drive them. Yes, we now realize how the wings put cars in the air, but why wasn’t an immediate change mandated as soon as that was discovered? Why are we phasing out these wings that make cars fly, rather than making immediate modifications? NASCAR has the money and they can hire the brains. Fix them all, fix them this week, and at least until we can get the spoilers back on the cars, they’ll be a little safer.
Add to this the knowledge that Carl was chasing Brad down with the intent to wreck him. This was KNOWN. This was not a “wow, we never saw THAT coming” sort of deal. Evidence of this is all over the place, from the video that quickly surfaced of Carl trying a lap before, but missing, to the immediate words from the broadcast booth when the 12 flipped. What do you normally hear in that situation? Say it with me now, “Oooh, trouble! The 12 has flipped over!” That’s followed by, “Let’s take a look and see what happened.” Yes, we can recite it from memory of every other wreck we’ve seen. Instead, the very first (and immediate) call from the booth was, “And the 99 has turned over Keselowski!”
That kind of call doesn’t happen if people are not keenly aware of who is racing whom, and what rivalries are about to result in collision. They were watching this unfold. If FOX knew the 99 was chasing the 12 to wreck him, NASCAR also knew. And the time to have warned Carl Edwards was immediately following his first (and failed) attempt.
Instead, NASCAR has spent the last three months telling everyone that they can race old school again. They’ve encouraged rivalries, and some might say they’ve even encouraged the on-track pay-back. They know what gets ratings and attention and puts butts in seats at the track. How can they, then, turn around and tell Carl Edwards that he’s done something wrong? From a marketing standpoint, he brightened the NASCAR blip on the world sports radar, and he did it without the dozens of marketing suits that have been trying to do so for years.
Carl Edwards might have set out to pay back Brad Keselowski, but he certainly did not set out to flip his car 20 feet in the air. He made clear his options that he felt he had at the time: Do nothing; Do something after the race; Do something at Bristol and involve a dozen other cars; Handle the matter now. He chose to do what he felt he had to do. No different than the way Bobby Allison tells the story of why he had to stick up to Cale on the backstretch. If he didn’t do it, he would never have the respect of the other driver. If he didn’t stand up for himself, he would always be put in the wall.
Brad’s post-wreck interview, on the other hand, was as we might have expected: ironic and wrought with hypocrisy. He called it “a wild ride that was uncalled for.” He went on to say that it’s not cool to intentionally wreck someone. He says that at least when HE did it to Carl, “I didn’t do it intentionally.” What can be more intentional than to drive through a guy rather than lift? He most certainly DID wreck Carl intentionally at Talladega, and while I know some are citing the danger of this payback at Atlanta, nowhere is more dangerous than Talladega. For Keselowski to claim his wasn’t intentional is either a bad memory, or an untruth. He had choices, and he chose to drive through Carl Edwards. Maybe Carl came down on the 12 on lap 40 in Atlanta, but once he sat with his wrecked car for awhile, surely Brad’s actions from last April were at least a dash of salt on the wound.
Carl, in his post-wreck interview, is not denying any intention at all except that he did not intend (or expect) the 12 to take flight. I don’t think anyone did. Did he mean to ruin Brad’s day the way Brad had ruined Carl’s day? Most certainly. But if NASCAR didn’t want that payback, they had plenty of time to prevent it, and they chose not to.
Carl is just one ingredient in the recipe that put Brad Keselowski up in the air, and to treat the situation as though he is the sole responsible party for the flying car of Keselowski is just unfair.
| | | Comments: | | Carol - sorry, couldn't disagree with you more on the Edwards/Keselowski wreck.
First, Brad did NOT intentionally wreck Carl at Talladega. Carl came down on him plain and simple; I watched it again earlier today just to make sure I remembered it correctly. Are you saying Brad should have hit the brake? At 200 mph at the end of the last lap? Sorry that is not going to happen.
Carl moved down on Brad.
Carl also came down HARD on Brad at the beginning of the Atlanta race. I've watched that replay a half dozen times and that was Carl all the way. I don't see how it makes one bit of difference whether the damage was on the front or side of Brad's car. If Brad was faster at that point on the bottom of the track and Carl came down hard in the corner (and therefore possibly going slower and/or scrubbing off speed) Brad very easily could have hit him accidentally in the front. The fact is Carl came down on Brad, not the other way around. Brad has no obligation (zero, none) to even TRY to slow down. You seen to be arguing he sped up and purposely ran into Carl. That would imply he wasn't already going as fast as he could and that makes no sense.
And stop making excuses for Carl. It is not the wing's fault (the car's got airborne long before the wing and will do so after they are gone), it is not NASCAR's fault, it is not FOX's fault...you simply don NOT wreck someone at 180 mph heading into a dogleg section of the track. To defend his action by saying "nobody expected the 12 car to go flying" is nonsense. What exactly did you expect to happen at that kind of speed? And Carl is the LAST person who should not have understood - he was the one who took the exact same ride at Talladega!
It was a stupid mindless thing to do by Carl, period. I hope NASCAR parks him at least one race. |
| | | Brad shouldn't HAVE to move over or give anyone a spot because he's just a rookie. If Denny or Carl or Juan can't take the spot the old fashioned way, ie pass him cleanly, then maybe they shouldn't be racing. Just because I'm a prima donna and Brad should know that I'm coming and give me my space, well I cry BS. Brad is a racer from the drop of the green flag to the waving of the checkered flag. I've seen the replays, Carl's wrecks were all on Carl. NASCAR is in a tough spot on this. They told the drivers to "have at it" but this one crossed the line. Carl should be penalized 500 points, $500K and parked for a minimum of 1 race but should be more. What he did was only a matter of time in coming. He's had issues with his own teammates, Jr and now Brad. A rivalry is one thing, vengence is another altogher. Carl, you have crossed the line and have lost any respect I once had for you. Take a couple of races, compose yourself and try and come back and race like a man. |
| | | I agree with the first two comments; Is this the first time "cousin" Carl has acted irrationally, NO. Remember when Matt was being interviewed and he came up and faked a punch? Or, going into Harvick's shop and faking a punch, after grabbing him? And, going back on the track after Junior's win, remember how Junior had his hand out the window and jerked it in?? Could Carl be Bi Polar? I have know people that are; nice one time, completely different another. He is very scary, look at his eyes sometime when he is mad. Sure, people like his backflip and his fake smile. He is going to really hurt someone someday. |
| | I agree 100% with Mallard Motorsports & jrfanindallas involving the BK-CE wreck. I have no love for BK. I think he is naivley arrogant for a rookie (or maybe he's just a punk) but he didn't do anything wrong at Atlanta or Talladega. Carl on the other hand should know better. So stop trying to manipulate the facts and spread around the blame to justify the poor judgement of Carl.
There has got to be some line drawn as to what is acceptable and what isn't. It can't be a bunch of guys using cars as weapons wrecking each other. Sure, that would increase ratings but it would be a different crowd of people interested in seeing that week after week. The reality television and wrestling crowd.
Also a huge JEERS to the tire issues. If it had only happened to HMS then you'd have to say it was something specific to their setups but it was happening to a lot of teams.
On a lighter note, as for that Kobalt tool chest commercial I think they missed a great opportunity. Imagine if after the car was sitting on that tool chest one of the guys went under the car and easily pushed the car around like the tool chest was a dolly. |
| | Carol - not sure how long you have watch racing but your assessment is off from the majority. The reason there was a mark on the front of the 12 is because the 99 pulled down on him at 180 mph not giving time to react or anywhere to go. If you think the daga incident was intentional, like I said you don't understand racing. Carl had no reason for payback because BK didn't cause the incident. Watch the tapes very carefully, then write a black and white article on what you see not what you think.
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| | I didn't see that much of the race, but I did see the Kobalt commercial. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the disclaimer come to the effect that this is a simulation of a car falling off a lift and Jimmie and Chad being scared come on screen _before_ the car fell? I'll have to play that one back. But if so, nice spoiler, there, Lawyers!
All I know is, when I got to work today, the first thing my co-worker said to me was, "what's up with that one guy turning that P----- (he's Polish, he can get away with it) over?" Hey, that's ratings gold, man.
Guess it'll sell tickets for next week. Oh, wait. Next week they have off. Guess it'll sell tickets for the week after. Oh, wait. The week after is Bristol; that sells out anyway. Well, Martinsville hasn't sold out in a few years...maybe Brad can retaliate at Bristol and help a brother out at M'Ville?
Anyway, CHEERS to Kurt Busch. Remember him? He won a race at Atlanta not too long ago. Looks like being the only full-time Dodge teams in the field isn't hurting Penske so after all. Kudos to Steve Addington! Kyle's loss was definitely Kurt's gain on that one. And they're 10th in points!
CHEERS also to the continuing resurgence of RCR! Three cars in the top six, with the 29 on top. Keep it together, guys! Keep Harvick happy, and maybe he'll stay on after this year.
JEERS, however, to the new consistent schedule being not quite consistent enough. I realized, seven laps into the race, that I still had my DVD-R set up for Las Vegas. Oops. Now I'll _never_ know how "A Slice of Pizzi" turned out!!
--Mike. |
| | CHEERS to Atlanta! lol well... maybe a not but CHEERS anyway!
CHEERS to the 88 turning the fastest lap in quals, and leading practice's... Now what Jr and Lance do with that during the race is another story. CHEERS to Jr finishing 15th... being a lap down and getting a top fifteen can only looked at as a positive for this team.
CHEERS to a fast car for the 24.... at least for the first two runs. JEERS to the speeding penalty... C'mon Jeff... ugh! Anyway.... the car was junk after the left front tire went down, they never recovered. At least he managed a top twenty.
CHEERS to the Kobalt ad.... Did anyone notice that when the car came crashing down... we heard the guy ask about Chad first? LOL Hey they gotta make sure the mastermind is ok! Too funny! Well, if I had been there I woulda ask about ya JJ!
CHEERS to Kurt Busch, his team, and fans on the win!... CHEERS to Steve Addington getting a win... with the other Busch!
CHEERS to Mallards Motorsports... he said everything that needs to be said about the Edwards/Brad K incident. I agree with him
100%. Carl simply CAN NOT be allowed to do something like this... from what he put on FB, he was not paying him back for the incident earlier in the day, but from things that have happened in prior races... That could have easily been handled in the garage, and should have been. Carl has got anger issues.
I still can't figure out why Brad K is being picked on.... evidently its easier to pick on him than it would be JPM or Tony Stewart... because Brad's driving style is very simliar to those guys. I don't see Carl or Denny taking one those two any time soon.
CHEERS to Brad K walking away from what appeared to be a nightmare.... the driver's side was crushed... and he was visibly dazed. Thanks to the good Lord above that he is ok. |
| | JEERS to Carl. He needs to be parked. I used to be a fan. Even more so after Talledega last year, which he handled with class. This guy had a chance to be a superstar...great presence...signature victory celebration...movie star smile, and a talented driver to boot. Too bad he's 'unbalanced'. The second you have undeniable proof that a driver intentionally put a guy in the fence, you've got to park him. Not just for the race, but for several races. There's no place for vendettas at 200 MPH.
CHEERS to Nascar for leaving the wings on as long as they have. I'm starting to think that maybe Nascar is like treating this like MLB did steroids. Look the other way as long as it sells tickets. If Nascar wants old school, I guess Brad's only option is to wait for Carl behind the hauler with his largest wrench...
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| | | CHEERS to Mallards Motorsports for typing my exact thoughts. Brad K has done a lot of bad things on the track, but in now way does that excuse what Carl did. JEERS to blaming Brad K for the earlier wreck when it's perfectly obvious that Brad was holding his line and Carl came down into him. JEERS Carl, you are nothing but a big bully with a pretty smile. Sorry Carol, normally we see eye-to-eye but today I must give you a JEERS. |
| | | JEERS to Carl. I think its been covered. Three races minimum if you ask me. Remember his rookie year at Bristol? When he bumped and bumped and cussed out the old man on the radio? Dale Jarrett didn't deserve that. Carl is a punk and deserves to be sent back to the dirt to learn. |
| | | Deserving or not, NA$CAR will never suspend Carl for a race because of the sponsors. JEERS for common sense taking the back seat to $$$. They need to do something serious to deter this from happening again. JEERS to crushed in A-pillars and windshields! SO scary to see that, hopefully it will never kill someone. Oh, yeah, CHEERS jpm! He sure is fun to watch. |
| | | edwards sounds like a 5 year old who's whiny little excuse of "i didnt know, he'd go flying" is pitiful. this clown has never been held accountable for any of his actions. and your account of bk's post crash interview makes me vomit. lady, i'd pay good money to see if YOU would give a coherent interview after a crash of that magnitude. bench that bastard for at LEAST a week! |
| | | i just went over a tape of the edwards vs bk crash at talladega and at the very end larry mac asks dw if he felt brad was at fault and he said absolutely not. they were both racing for a win and carl was trying to block all over the track and THAT'S what caused that wreck! |
| | Let me add an addendum here...
Yes, there is a difference in "intent" between Talladega and Atlanta. Carl's intent was to go find BK and wreck him.
At Talladega, that was not BK's goal, but what what I'm saying is that it was not unintentional. There was an awareness and a choice. BK knew that in not lifting, he was commanding respect. And he knew that CE would wreck. That is a decision, and that is intent.
More later, perhaps... have an interview with KP.
C |
| | "CHEERS to the radio replay from the spotter of the 55." That should be 56, not 55. It's not Mikey anymore! ;) And the new 55 doesn't seem inclined to make it all the way to the end of a race...
I had the same thought as you did when I saw the #17 Valvoline car...it looked just like Mark Martin's old #6, just with a different number!
You also mentioned Dale Jr not leading a lap from the pole. Actually, excluding Daytona (where half the field usually leads at some point), there hasn't been a race yet this season in which the polesitter led even one lap. Now that's an interesting trend! |
| | Tony Stewart did the same thing to Kyle Busch last year, that Brad did to Carl at Dega. The only difference was that Kyle did not go airborne. From what I recall... not one person (except Busch)questioned Tony's intent. Because it was very clear.... he was holding his line... Busch tried to block and the rest is history. That is racing!
The deal at Dega with Carl/Edwards was a racing deal... plain and simple. The intent on Brad's part was to win the race, which is to be expected.
Carl's intentionally stalked Brad on Sunday with every intention to wreck him, not even considering what could possibly happen.
Carl stated he had several options, he chose the wrong option... If Carl has been so tore up over the fact that Brad has not been giving him room... then don't give him room next time... or choose Option B.... talk to him face to face like a man... don't use the car as a weapon. I guess Carl was reminded of how that did not go so well when he decided to grab Harvick's neck, so he choose to be a coward and use his car.
The deal here is that the Dega incident should not even be brought up... it has no relevance to what happened on Sunday. |
| | I commented in the other thread that I believed that Edwards made a bad decision on when and where to retaliate but that retaliation was not unjustified. Many of you have made strong cases as to why Keselowski was not at "fault" for the incident earlier in the race. After watching it again a few times, I think blame is inconclusive at best; however, in all the decades I have watched NASCAR, one sentiment I have heard time and time again is that drivers have long memories. For his short time in Cup racing, Keselowski has embedded himself in the long memory of several drivers. Further, I believe that the drivers can and should police themselves. In this sense, I believe that Edwards was justified in sending Keselowski a message, but I disagree completely with his thought process on when and where such a message was appropriate. Thus, I believe Edwards should be given a significant penalty. I also disagree with Carol that the any significant fault here lies outside of the two drivers directly involved, with the majority of it being on Edwards.
Also, a comment on intent: Carol believes that Keselowski intentionally wrecked Edwards at Talladega because he knew a wreck would occur if Edwards did not lift. Any reasonable person should agree that Keselowski’s action at Talladega was reckless (the conscious disregard of a known risk), but whether he intended to wreck Edwards is a bit more nebulous. Within legal notions of intent, the intent to act with reckless disregard to the consequences may constitute “implied intent” (also called “implied malice”) for the greater crime/tort that actually occurred. So, if we wish to apply the doctrine of implied intent to Keselowski’s behavior at Talladega, then yes, we could say his intention to act recklessly was the same as intending to wreck Edwards. However, this same doctrine would lead to determining that Edwards intended to put Kaselowski in danger of great bodily harm as that was a known consequence of Edward’s reckless behavior of turning Kaselowski at 190+ MPH. Further, for Keselowski attempting to win the race can be seen as a mitigating factor within the context of the sport, whereas returning from 100+ laps down and making not one, but at least two recorded attempts to take out someone should be treated as an aggravating factor.
One last thought: I remember (although not as clearly as I would like anymore) a race (maybe at Dover, but I am not sure) in which Jeff Gordon (who was in his second or third year) made Mark Martin angry. Later in the race when Gordon was outside of Martin exiting the corner, Martin pushed up the track and sandwiched Gordon against the wall. It could have been an unintended incident, but both Benny Parsons and Ned Jarrett carefully implied that a veteran driver could make a message look like “just one of those racing deals.” I believed then and now that it was payback, but artfully done. |
| | | Oh, and CHEERS to Kurt Busch, JPM, Denny Hamlin and Kasey Kahne. Those four cars were clearly the class of the field (although for a bit it looked like JJ had a shot too). Until tire gremlins took Hamlin out of contention, it appeared any of them could have won the race. Congrats to Kurt for holding on, but I am not sure I agree with him that he would have won had it stayed green when JPM was running him down. |
| | NASCAR SUCKS!!! A 3 race probation!!??? That's not even a slap on the wrist.
It pains me to say this but I hope this happens again and someone does get hurt. That way NASCAR will be able to be criminally charged as well. What a bunch of balless wonders. People have gotten bigger penalties for just driving the wrong way down pit road (which BTW, Carl also did on Sunday). What a crock. Just another strike against NASCAR. Wonder what would have happened had it been Robby Gordon instead of Mister Ed.
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| | @Bill B,
I would not have put it as colorfully, but I agree! |
| | wow. 3 race probation. JEERS!
I've made clear how I think Brad K has played his role over the lat year or so to lead up to this, but I cannot get behind just a 3 race probation for Edwards. No money? No Points? for a guy 150+ laps down taking out a top 5 car?
Not a good call. not at all.
I can agree with not suspending him, as I really don't think that was necessary, but totally figured for this to cost Edwards big money and some points, and am a rather surprised that it did not.
other than that- CHEERS to a pretty good race.
JEERS to Edwards' roid rage messing up what was cooking up to be a fantastic finish between Kurt and Montoya.
CHEERS to a decent finish for Bill Elliott- even after a pit road miscue.
CHEERS to martinsvilleweather for verifying what I was thinking about the pole sitters not leading laps in 3 of the 4 races this year. What's up with that?
CHEERS to Bristol in 2 weeks, but why do we have to wait 2 weeks? Why are we taking a week off already? JEERS to schedulers. A week off after 4 races, and then no break during like the last 15 races? lame.
CHEERS to the Kobalt commercial. there is a full length vid on youtube somewhere that shows the whole thing- not just what they edited for the commercial. A friend posted it on her facebook - but I cannot get to facebook or youtube at work, so I can't provide the link. JEERS to my over protective IT department, lol. Sorry. :(
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| | @eddo,
I agree about the off weekend. Any idiot could figure out mathematically when the 4 breaks should be: week 7, week 14, week 21 and week 28. Of course with things like Easter and the start of the chase there would need to be some latitude but having 2 of the 4 breaks in the first six races of a 36 race season is just so NASCAR. |
| | Well, it took the on-track death of NASCAR's biggest star to force NASCAR to do anything about safety; so perhaps we'll just wait for someone else to die before NASCAR gets serious. Probation, that's it? And for only 3 races? No points? No fine? That is just plain embarrassing.
Oh right, musn't annoy the sponsors. Hmmm...I could have sworn Aflac was an insurance company; you'd think they'd be on board with reigning in unsafe behavior...
Well, NASCAR must know what they are doing...the soaring ratings, fully sponsored field and packed grandstands will attest to tha...oh wait... |
| | Good thing I don't own a Nascar Team.
I'd have to park it due to a total lack of brains [and balls] in Nascar La La Land.
1 race suspension, $200,000 fine and 500 driver and owners points would have been the correct thing to do.
Not to mention Double Secret Probation until Dec. 31
CHEERS to next week being an off week. I'll be able to find something on TV that isn't connected in any way to Nascar.
Jim @ Home |
| | I commented in the other thread that three weeks probation is a joke and not a punishment at all.
I agree with Bill B entirely. NASCAR's refusal to take real control over this situation and let it go is akin to just waiting/hoping for someone to really get hurt. If that's what they want then I can't wait for it to happen.
Carl Long's career was screwed up because his engine was .17" over but Carl Edwards created a situation where someone could have been killed by using his car as a weapon and he gets mere PROBATION?
Do we need to see another Earnhardt death for NASCAR to figure this out? Horrible penalties for a non-points race and a very tiny infraction of engine volume yet a "turn the other way" attitude to possible death?
Unreal. |
| | | This is unreal... Carl only got a 3 race probation!! When Jeff Gortdon pushed Matt Kenseth at Bristol... he got a freakin year probation!! lol I guess next time he should just use his car as a weapon instead of confronting someone face to face. |
| | Hi Carol,
You wrote: "CHEERS to Carl, “I really thought it was his fault, but that replay doesn’t make it look as malicious as I thought.”"
JEERS to Carl Edwards, lying thru his teeth. His later actions belied his words.
And you wrote: "CHEERS to David Ragan’s three-wheeler. Anyone else want one of those little scooters?"
Me! $3800, and the nearest dealer is in Tampa...might be a while afore I get one. (anyone else that's interested, look here: http://www.theautomoto.com/)
Also you wrote: "CHEERS to explaining yaw and pitch, and the origin in aeronautics."
Might not be such a good idea to learn from Mr Joy. Those terms originated with ships on the sea, they pre-date the aeroplane by 300 or 400 years.
Plus you wrote: "JEERS to the wrong kind of smoke coming out of the 00 car. Where’s the love? And I wonder why we still call them “tail pipes” when they’re not at the tail of the car anymore. Maybe the same reason we still call them stock cars, I s’pose."
JEERS for wondering on Tuesday, that's susposed to happen on Friday. (as for tailpipes, I can't say I've heard anyone who works with engines use that word. They'd just say pipes, or more often headers, altho strictly speaking the header ends quite a ways upstream).
You also wrote: "JEERS to two cars in the wall on a restart, and no immediate caution? “Somebody hit Elliott Sadler…” "
JEERS to Elliott Sadler, poking about in the middle of the track and forcing a caution. That boy needs to take a lesson from Max Papis - get down off the track and onto the apron.
And you enscribed: "JEERS to wings that give flight. How often last year did we laud those wings for keeping the cars on the ground when they’d get turned around and the rear wheels lifted up? Could it be, in retrospect, that the wings weren’t responsible for keeping them down, but for getting them up in the first place? And maybe they stayed on the ground despite the wings, not because of the wings."
I believe you have it with that last sentence. The sad thing is NASCAR swears they wind tunnel tested, and I believe them. It just seems they have no skill at all in conducting and interpreting the results of a wind tunnel test.
A couple more thoughts:
CHEERS to Kyle Petty, asking NASCAR to "grow a pair" and do what's right with the Edwards suspension. JEERS to NASCAR, proving once again that they don't have any. Come down like a ton of bricks on a little guy like Carl Long, turn into milquetoasts to give Carl Edwards a feeble slap on the wrist.
Lastly, JEERS to your last Jeer. It's clear you favor Edwards and dislike Keselowski, and unfortunately that's biased your perception of events...you'd have been better off not writing most of that. I will say CHEERS to your blaming NASCAR for not stepping in put an end to the situation before it happened - as you say it must have been obvious to them what was about to happen.
John
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| | Good point highbanks24, I'd forgotten about that.
Well at least a precedent has been set, anything goes on the track. I wonder how much this decision has to do with the fact that Aflac pays additional sponsorship money to Fox and NASCAR above and beyond the sponsorship of Carl's car. |
| | Well 3 race probation. SO let's see.. This is an off week,s that's 1. But let's say they don;t count it. So you have Bristol where evryone get's bumped so no biggie. They Martinsville.. again where everyone gets bumped. Followed by Phoenix.
So to make sure I get this right... They go to a nice high speed track like Talladega and no more probation? Way to go NA$CAR!!!!!
I like the 1 race suspension. I like the $200,000.00 fine. I even like the 500 point loss for the driver, but not the team. In NO OTHER SPORT do you penalize the team for one persons stupidity. Not one.
A hockey player can cripple a person for life and the penalty is that players and that one alone. Even if he is a goon and put out there on purpose by the coach to cause mayhem and havoc. This is one thing I
This is one thing I have neevr understood about NA$CAR. Have the gonads to do what's right, but don't shoot the dog because it has fleas.... get rid of the fleas. Or in this case Carl Edwards.
There are enough good young drivers out there looking for a ride. Put them behind the wheel for a few races and let Edwards sit back and contemplate. Doesn't hurt the team or the sponsor.
Not to mention it makes NA$CAR look more responsible.
Oh.. I just found the flaw. |
| | Sorry, have to add to the chorus of JEERS for Carl on this one. IF Brad was honest, he says he lifted when he saw Carl start to make a bonehead move (my color commentary) down on him early in the race. IF that is true, that explains why Carl ran into the front corner of Brad's car and not the side. In which case, Carl only owed payback to himself.
Similarly, JEERS to NASCAR for saying this kind of behavior is OK.
Oh, and if anyone is curious and 'blessed' with an inadequate memory, I did go over to www.racing-reference.info and confirm martinsvilleweather's comment above regarding pole winners not being lap leaders this season.
@JPN001, While I always like your "legal analysis," I think I disagree with a bit of this one. You somewhat characterized Brad's actions at Talladega as consisting of reckless disregard. Now, I'm not a professional driver, but I can see it another way:
He had three choices. One was illegal - he was not allowed to move below the line, and someone else was not supposed to be allowed to push him down there. While he could have done that anyway, he already knew that would be throwing away a finish that he had earned, and that the person responsible would not be punished. I think we can both see why he didn't choose that route. So, let us discard it for the sake of this commentary.
Alternatively, he could either keep going, hold steady and trust the other driver to stop acting with "reckless intent..." or he could attempt to slow down abruptly and perhaps be the cause of a big wreck involving himself and any number of cars behind him. Out of those two options, I'd say he made the reasonable choice - trusting in the judgment of the more experienced driver with whom he was racing.
:) |
| | @Greg in Dallas,
That is exactly what I meant when I said racing for the win was a mitigating factor. I agree with you that taking the least reckless course of action (which is what poor Regan Smith did) was not the best racing decision when first place was at stake. However, that does not mean the action he did take was not reckless; it just means that he had what he believed was a good reason for taking that risk. |
| | @JPN001,
...and, I assume you'll agree, the other driver's actions were equally reckless? |
| | @Greg in Dallas,
I will agree that blocking is indeed reckless behavior, which is why I personally thought Talladega was just one of those racin’ deals (as racing is inherently reckless). My comment was that even if we wanted to apply an implied intent analysis to claim Keselowski intentionally wrecked Edwards at Talladega, Edward’s actions in Atlanta were still worse than Keselowski’s at Talladega.
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| | | Some years ago Jr. won a race and during the commentary he said the word shi*. If my memory is correct he was fined $25,000 and was docked 25 points. I guess words are stronger than actions. |
| | "CHEERS to Junior on the pole. Any bets on when that car breaks?" Well done, Carol! I was hoping Addington would redeem himself with Jr., but HMS is broke and everyone has taken a pay cut and no more using the windtunnel. Too bad, Jr., even with all the money you bring into HMS.
We can only hope the #99 suddenly has a long rash of 'speeding on pit road' penalties, and 'inspection' issues, etc.. Nascar has more than one way to get their point across.
I agree with Harvick's twitter, he wants a refund on his penalties. :)
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| | CHEERS to everyone expressing their opinions!!!
I have to agree with Carol for a majority of what she stated.
Brad may want to talk with Ernie Irvan, he is going down the same road.
Phillip need to learn how to express his opinion better than attacking people, thanks to the moderator for stepping in. |
| | | CHEERS to a controversy with Keselowski that doesn't involve Denny Hamlin, for once. |
| | 'dega and Atlanta are apples and oranges, for many reasons...
The 'dega incident has clearly been shown that Carl messed up.... about a gazillion times it's been shown.
The Atlanta incident started at the start of the race, and has been shown that Carl messed up...
Carl had too much time to think about it.
Not a fan of B.K; but, I don't see what he did wrong.
NASCAR said... "Have at it"....
Carl did just that...
So, why is he on probation. ???
If Brad stay's upright, we are busy here tonight debating recipe's.
Pretty sure that others in the garage will fill Brad K. in on NASCAR racing for Dummies 101.
Back to recipe's... need some good one's for finger food in front of the T.V. for the 'dega race... What goes around comes around and may come around again then.
BTW... Mallard Motorsports absolutley nailed it.
BTW #2...@ JPN001... what did you say ????
Huge CHEERS to Mallard.... :) !!! |
| | One thing I haven't seen mentioned when discussing the Edwards and Keselowski wreck at Talladega was NASCAR's role in that incident. NASCAR created the circumstances surrounding the accident at Talladega where Carl's car got airborne.
When the end of that race was unfolding, I knew there was going to be an accident when Carl moved up the racetrack. Why? Because of what happened in the July 2008 race when Tony Stewart did the same thing to Regan Smith. Regan had the same choices that Brad had. To avoid an accident Regan moved below the yellow line. By not ruling that Tony had forced Regan below the yellow line and placing Regan in 18th place, NASCAR made the decision for Brad at Talladega. Brad had no real choice other than to hold his line and let chaos ensue.
NASCAR's relative inaction of placing Carl on probation may lead to unforeseen consequences in the future. I just hope no one pays a high price for NASCAR's hubris. |
| | @eddo,
That is hilarious. Now I'll have to watch the actual commercial to see what the edited version looks like.
OK - can someone explain exactly how the laps are added at the end of the race? When BK was wrecked there were 3 laps to go. As the cars were about to enter pit road they showed 4 laps to go and then it changed a few seconds later to 6 laps to go.
I believe it relates to the fact there would have been under 2 laps and the GWC mandates they take the restart with 2 laps to go. Once they complete one full lap under the GWC then the race will end after the two laps even if an accident happenens on the last lap?
Since they didn't make it one full lap after the first GWC they then added more laps so the second attempt of the GWC would again start with 2 laps to go? |
| | @Mallards... I think Fox is having at least as much trouble figuring out how to score the GWCs as the rest of us. Up to now, when they have a late yellow like that, they've been putting "3 to go" on the lap counter and leaving it there until the race goes green again. Then, it went to "2 to go," like it should.
On the other hand, what if the yellow comes out again? Do they go back to "3 to go"?
On the other hand, what sense did "4 to go" or "6 to go" make? Were they trying to anticipate how long the cleanup would be, and synch the "2 to go" up to the actual restart? Seems kind of optimistic to me....
Shifting gears a bit, IMHO the three-race probation, no fine, no points loss, non-action on the part of NASCAR is bogus to the power of bogus. I can understand "let 'em race," "rubbin' is racin'" and all of that. If a guy shoves someone out of the way for position, that's one thing. But to come from 150-whatever laps down, and deliberately wall somebody -- that's aggravated assault! As much as I like Carl Edwards, I think he should have paid some sort of actual penalty for his actions. What does he get if he shoves Brad Keselowski at Bristol? Six weeks probation???
I know I'd be shaking....
Not that Brad didn't have SOMEthing coming. As has been referenced in one or more of the 41 posts above, Keselowski hasn't exactly been Dale Carnegie out there in the early stages of his Sprint Cup career. It was high time someone let him know that actions have consequences. I'm not saying that Edwards's response was appropriate. Just that it was a matter of time before someone acted.
Hopefully, with the off week, some phone calls can be exchanged, cooler heads can prevail, and we can put this ugly mess behind us.
Then, they can go to Bristol, and start a whole new ugly mess.
You gotta love this sport....
Lemme close with: JEERS for the Atlanta-area fans for not supporting this track in higher numbers. I've been to AMS (1993, before the reconfig, but still). It's a nice facility. The racing is usually great, and they've had more than their fair share of exciting moments:
Dale Earnhardt's split-second win in 2000.
Kevin Harvick's even narrower win in Earnhardt's car the next year.
Carl's last-lap pass of Jimmie Johnson five years ago.
And, now the Edwards-Keselowski incident.
NASCAR, SMI, and the AMS management work hard to put on a good show at this track. So, why doesn't anyone go there?
If it were only about 800 miles closer to my fair city...I wouldn't miss a race!
Atlantans, what's your excuse????
--Mike. |
| | I've always been more or less a Carl Edwards fan, and thought I would remain so even after this little bit of stupidity.. right up until I read the quote attributed to him on the main page of this site.
If carl did indeed say that the I have to think that he is somewhat dumber than the north end of a south bound moose.
How the h*** does he think that out of the 4 options D was the right one? I used to race, and yes, we would distribute our own form of justice on the track.... But I cannot think of one single time where this occured after more than an hours "cooling off time".
I also can;t think of a time where such blatant actions did not result in at least some form of penalty.
That was a comment that I would have expected from someone who shall remain nameless but is often villified, but in all total honesty I can't even see him doing something this stupid and then making a comment like that.
NA$CAR needs to seriously take another look at this and get their heds out of their collective butts. |
| | Here is something to think about. In the long run might this new direction (anything goes) that NASCAR has taken actually lead to more bland racing? We already know that points racing takes precedence over winning but now that there are no rules how much is a championship contender going to risk passing someone if they can't do it 100% clean? Especially if the guy they are trying to pass isn't a contender and has nothing to lose by taking them out.
All I am saying is that this policy could have the exact opposite effect of what NASCAR is trying to accomplish.
Also perhaps the Sept Richmond race will become the "let's square our account race". The race where someone that is on the bubble for making the chase gets taken out. If there are no repercussions then I sure would take out the driver that took me out of chase contention two races ago. Revenge is a basic human emotion and every one of us wants to somehow payback the guy that just cut us off. And, if we were in a car with a roll cage, all the safety features, helmets, etc and we wouldn't get in trouble with the law we most often would.
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| | @ Bill B
--And, if we were in a car with a roll cage, all the safety features, helmets, etc and we wouldn't get in trouble with the law we most often would.---
Just because Richmond is 3/4 mile doesn't mean someone can't be killed or have their carrer ended by injury.
Just ask Jerry Neadue who had his carrer ended against the turn one wall at Richmond.
I feel someone at Nascar was drunk or on drugs when the decision was made not to level serious penelties against Carl E.
This will come back to bite Nascar in the butt big time. I just hope nobody has to die [fans or drivers] to prove it.
Jim @ Home
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| | @ jim88
I feel someone at Nascar was drunk or on drugs when the decision was made not to level serious penelties against Carl E.
That couldn't possibly be.... that would be against their substance abuse policy, and they would have to suspend themselves LOL!!! |
| | | Is anyone else wondering if it will now be open season on Keselowski, or did Edwards send a message for everyone? |
| | | Well Carol, I'm with you on this one. I can't understand why everyone is acting like this is a 1 time only event. When Ryan got airborne last year it was because he was bumped from behind...intentional or not, the result could have been just as disasterous as Brad's flip COULD have been but there weren't any penalties in that incident. I'm not saying that every race let's all go out & wreck each other but I do feel that if you want to "let em go" then you have to be prepared for sometimes it being more than just a hard hit to the wall. I never, ever want anyone else to be seriously hurt or killed and quite honestly we've seen some horrific crashes and each and every time the driver has gotten out & walked away...thanks to Dale Sr.'s accident...which by the way didn't look serious at all & lead to a death. I don't remember but was anyone penalized for that accident? I'm just saying... |
| | @JPN001: As I mentioned above, Brad Keselowski's behavior, perceived or otherwise, up to this point of his career, has been a bone of contention with at least one driver not named Carl Edwards. Now that "justice," at least as Edwards sees it, has been administered, it will be interesting to see if this results in a modification of behavior on Keselowski's part.
Ideally, Brad will do a complete Irvan, apologize to one and all whom he may have offended, and everyone moves on with a clean slate.
Not so ideally, Keselowski will assume that he is the wronged party at Atlanta, that Edwards's motivations weren't cumulative, and that it's Edwards, Hamlin, etc., who need to stay out of his way.
If he chooses the latter course, Keselowski may well find himself joining Edwards on the probation list -- or in a far worse predicament.
--Mike. |
| | @jim88,
I didn't pick Richmond because it was a 3/4 mile track I picked it because it's the last chance to knock someone on the bubble out of the chase. Sort of like DJ did with Newman in 2005 (I think).
As for the roll cage comment I was talking about you and I in our day to day travels with all the idiots on the road. If I wouldn't get in trouble or die I'd be exacting revenge on someone twice a day (morning rush hour and evening rush hour..LOL)
Otherwise I agree with you. |
| | What I can't seem to understand is why are guys like Carl and Denny so mad at Brad??? Is it because he races the same way they do. Its funny they spout off that he does not give them any room..etc... but are they giving him any room out there??
Why is it that Brad is expected to yield to his competitors?? Is he not in this to win too?
I am just not getting why there is a different standard when it comes to this kid.
I have watched him race, he's no different than Tony, Kyle B, JPM, Carl, and Denny... all very aggressive drivers. Actually he kinda reminds me of the late Dale Earnhardt... who NEVER backed down on the track.
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| | @rocketgirl.
Personally the fact that the car went airborne doesn't matter to me in this case, that is not why I want a penalty. My problem with it is that it was blatant. At least have the common sense to make it look like an accident or a mistake. There was no denying that Carl's intent was to wreck BK to the point of ruining his day (not to send him airborn). That distinction doesn't matter to me. If someone is going to use their car as a weapon at any speed they should be penalized. This is supposed to be a sport and although there is inherent danger built in to it, the goal is not supposed to be to intentionally wreck people. Just like in baseball the goal isn't to bean the batter in the head, in football break someone's kneck, or in hockey ram a stick in someone's mouth.
All other sports have safeguards against punative violence that doesn't serve the purpose of the sport or competition. NASCAR on the other hand is now encouraging it.
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| | | I don't understand the animosity towards Brad when Sam Hornish, Jr. is a much worse and accident prone driver. Why is no one flipping HIM over all the time? |
| | | Kyle Petty tonight on ESPN tonight(a quote) "this is one of the saddest days in NASCAR", referring to what Carl did, and the ruling. I am with Kyle. |
| | @ Bill B. I disagree...going airborne is an important part of the equation because had Carl got into Brad and he had spun around into the infield or the wall and then proceeded on to pit road for repairs, people wouldn't have looked at the film so hard to see if Carl had done it intentionally or not and people wouldn't be calling for Carl's head on a platter. Most people (not all) would have been willing to say it was a "racing thing" and move on and we wouldn't still be discussing it.
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| | read it and weep...
http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/opinion/03/11/road.ramblings.drodman.bkeselowski/index.html |
| | @rocketgirl,
So you're saying as long as no one sees it you can get away with wrecking someone on purpose. You see that is where we disagree. I don't think condoning someone whose sole purpose for being on the track is to wreck someone else and not to race. Anyone who is should receive a substantial penalty.
Can you give me an example of any other serious sport where a similar policy is in place because that is where I am coming from. In order to be taken as a serious sports there need to be laws and penalties against flagrant actions such as wrecking someone.
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| | | @ Bill B, I'm just talking racing, not other sports. And we all know there are plenty of times there are intentional bumps in racing, especially NASCAR. And most of the time nothing is said about and no one crucifies the driver calling for such harsh penalties. And you know what I really, really want...is for everyone to just get over it. Stop talking about it. We all have our opinions and they don't mean a da*n thing to NASCAR or most of the rest of the world. Whether NASCAR slapped Carl's wrist or suspended him indefinitely, it doesn't really matter...it will happen again with someone. So now...I spoken my piece and I'm done. And really missing that there won't be any NASCAR this weekend. |
| | | IF your talking blatant!!! Denny called it out last year at Homestead.... should not of he had a timeout, starting this year??? I don`t have feelings for either driver, but BK is rub`n drivers the wrong way, he`ll pay a stiff price soon, no one will want to work with him when it counts.....MY driver is in the booth, come`on ESPN!!!!! |
| | @rocketgirl,
I guess the crux of this issue is if you want NASCAR to be a sport or a reality television show. If you want it to be taken seriously as a sport then you have to have rules and penalties.
As for your assertion that "We all have our opinions and they don't mean a da*n thing to NASCAR or most of the rest of the world."... they will when someone dies as the result of an avoidable "accident".
Amen on that last statement...I too will miss there not being a race this weekend. Way too soon in the season for an off weekend. |
| | @rocketgirl,
The issue under debate in not whether Brad happened to crash or not. The issue is whether Carl knowingly engaged in behavior that showed extremely poor judgement. Intentionally wrecking someone at 180 mph clearly was reckless and dangerous. Other drivers have purposely wrecked drivers before but NOT AT 180 MPH. The actual end result of the accident is irrelevant.
Other sports are awash in drug abuse, stupid behavior and criminal activity. Some of us would like to NOT see NASCAR devolve into that same kind of behavior.
Carl clearly crossed the line and NASCAR should have severely punished him for it.
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Sprint Cup 2010 Schedule
Saturday night races in red
Feb 14 Daytona FOX 1pm
Feb 21 Fontana FOX 3pm
Feb 28 Las Vegas FOX 1pm
Mar 07 Atlanta FOX 1pm
Mar 14 OFF
Mar 21 Bristol FOX 1pm
Mar 28 Martinsvl FOX 1pm
Apr 04 OFF
Apr 10 Phoenix FOX 7pm
Apr 18 Texas FOX 3pm
Apr 25 Talladega FOX 1pm
May 01 Richmond FOX 7pm
May 08 Darlington FOX 7pm
May 16 Dover FOX 1pm
May 22 ALL STAR SPEED
May 30 Charlotte FOX 5pm
Jun 06 Pocono TNT 1pm
Jun 13 Michigan TNT 1pm
Jun 20 Sonoma TNT 3pm
Jun 27 Loudon TNT 1pm
Jul 03 Daytona TNT 7pm
Jul 10 Chicago TNT 7pm
Jul 17 OFF
Jul 25 Indianapolis ESPN 1pm
Aug 01 Pocono ESPN 1pm
Aug 08 WatkGlen ESPN 1pm
Aug 15 Michigan ESPN 1pm
Aug 21 Bristol ABC 7pm
Sep 05 Atlanta ESPN 7pm
Sep 11 Richmond ABC 7pm
Sep 19 Loudon ESPN 1pm
Sep 26 Dover ESPN 1pm
Oct 03 Kansas ESPN 1pm
Oct 10 Fontana ESPN 3pm
Oct 16 Charlotte ABC 7pm
Oct 24 Martinsvl ESPN 1pm
Oct 31 Talladega ESPN 1pm
Nov 07 Texas ESPN 3pm
Nov 14 Phoenix ESPN 3pm
Nov 21 Homestead ESPN 1pm

 
 
What happened to me in 1983?

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